Is it time for a change in the booking team?

[ninetwentyfour]

LOL. People still think Jim Cornette doesn't have full control? That's baffling. I have more than one friend that works for ROH regularly at the moment and each of them blame Cornette for just about everything. Delirious's sole purpose at this point is essentially a road agent, to be a messenger to the boys from Cornette.

.

Posts like this are my favorite on forums.

There is always that one guy that goes

"I know people on the inside AND THIS IS HOW IT REALLY IS!"

Except if you track my posts on this forum you'll notice that most, if not all, have relevance and have been proven to be correct over time. Frankly, there is a way it really is and whether you choose to believe it or not, that's how it is. Cornette has 95% control of creative, if not 100%. I just find it funny people continue to have this debate like he doesn't have nearly full control. HE DOES. Or these threads that are like "Grade Delirious as a booker". Delirious is there as a road agent and to run the ship when Cornette can't be there. Simple as that.

[ROHFanAnthony]

Armchair Bookers Unite

what do you mean by this?

[freebird77]

I do play-by-play for a promotion in Ontario, Canada and fancy myself a bit of a "Fantasy" or "Armchair" booker.

I really believe the biggest problem for ROH right now is the lack of top line stars to face Steen to "defend" ROH's honour.

I enjoy Cornette's work as I am a big fan of the old school NWA days but I think he needs SBG to go out and invest in some new top line workers, primarily babyfaces.

Just to give an idea, if I had the book this is what I'd look at doing.

Staying inside ROH I continue the build for a Jay Lethal Championship run, I'm also assuming Elgin looses in Toronto and building Lethal for a title switch at FB. Lethal becomes unstoppable and ruthless in the ring, mimicking the style of Kevin Steen and calling him out at every turn, while getting himself over as the defender of ROH and getting a rule breaker edge to his persona. Meanwhile SCUM back jumps Lethal at any chance they get, brutalizing him as much as possible and Steen continues to chicken out by claiming Lethal can't beat Jacobs or Corino let alone himself. This leads to Glory by Honor where Lethal makes a deal with Steen and Cornette that he will take on Jacobs and Corino under handicap elimination match to gain #1 contendership for Final Battle, has to be a heavy emotional build, with Lethal saying consistently what being ROH Champion would mean to him.

Lethal goes over by hitting a Lethal Injection on Jacobs while Corino brings a chair into the ring. Ref Bump happens as Lethal and Corino fight over the chair. Lethal eventually gets control and flattens Corino, ref comes around 1-2-3. This way Lethal has defeated one member of SCUM by pinfall clean and one by nefarious means so Lethal can say on TV he's the #1 contender while SCUM can say they got screwed.

Steen claims Lethal cheated and he shouldn't have to face him but Cornette reminds him that Lethal beat both his henchmen and used Steen's own style to do it, Steen gets annoyed and clearly begins to worry that Lethal could be the man to dethrone him. SCUM then attacks Cornette, Lethal comes to make the save and gets hold of Corino and Jacobs but Steen escapes.

Last week of TV before Final Battle, Cornette offers to be in Jay Lethal's corner at Final Battle and he's bringing the Racket with him and if either Jacobs or Corino get involved he'll show them the same fate of all those who crossed the Midnight Express and JC years ago. Lethal, knowing Cornette's championship past agrees.

Final Battle; Steen and Lethal tear the house down, throwing everything at one another, with Steen using low blows as the ref is distracted at times by SCUM. Near the end of the match Lethal hits Hail to the King, clearly worried Corino hits the apron to distract the ref while Jacobs rolls in with the spike to attack Lethal...Jacobs gets cut off by a massive racket shot, Corino corners Cornette but Lethal makes the save, Steen comes up and decks Lethal from behind then gets to Cornette and steals the racket. As he goes to nail Lethal, Jay kicks him below the belt and hits the Lethal Combination to become the New ROH World Champion

[JigsawVs.Jason]

Quite a few good ideas, but Lethal should never hold the ROH World titel IMO, replace him with Cole in your scenario and I'd be happy

[trufreedom]

I still whole heartedly believe that once Cornette runs out of challengers, in a final effort, he will bring in El Generico to right his wrong. The one man Cornette knows can beat Steen. And than from Final Battle 2009 to Final Battle 2012 might be Pro Wrestling's Best Told Story...and I mean ever, anywhere.

[Wrestlingisback]

I still whole heartedly believe that once Cornette runs out of challengers, in a final effort, he will bring in El Generico to right his wrong. The one man Cornette knows can beat Steen. And than from Final Battle 2009 to Final Battle 2012 might be Pro Wrestling's Best Told Story...and I mean ever, anywhere.

I wish, but the way Generico and Cabana seem to be out of the company, I think Cornette uses that "funny don't make money" mandate he's always talking about with way too big a brush-ignoring the fact that Colt (Homicide) and Generico (Steen) have been involved in some of the most serious and violent feuds in the company's history. Not to mention the Briscoes adding a little humor to their act,via the video promos, helped ressurect their careers when they were getting stale

[YimYac]

If Generico doesn't want to sign a contract they can't make him.

He just said on Cabana's podcast (yes Generico talked in very broken english) that he has been traveling a ton and wrestling. Hell he even wrestled in Russia, I didn't even know they had wrestling there.

[Wrestlingisback]

If Generico doesn't want to sign a contract they can't make him.

He just said on Cabana's podcast (yes Generico talked in very broken english) that he has been traveling a ton and wrestling. Hell he even wrestled in Russia, I didn't even know they had wrestling there.

If Richards can wrestle the world over (in many of the same places Generico has been wrestling outside DGUSA/EVOLVE) under an ROH contract, I imagine Generico can too. So I doubt that's it. Seems more like the offer itself. I wonder what was offered to them compared to other ROH top guys

[JigsawVs.Jason]

If Generico doesn't want to sign a contract they can't make him.

He just said on Cabana's podcast (yes Generico talked in very broken english) that he has been traveling a ton and wrestling. Hell he even wrestled in Russia, I didn't even know they had wrestling there.

If Richards can wrestle the world over (in many of the same places Generico has been wrestling outside DGUSA/EVOLVE) under an ROH contract, I imagine Generico can too. So I doubt that's it. Seems more like the offer itself. I wonder what was offered to them compared to other ROH top guys

Generico should be offered the same amount of money as Richards, then maybe we could see the generic luchador in ROH again. As one of the users above stated, Generico winning the belt at Final Battle 2012 would be the epic conclusion to the greatest wrestling saga of all time IMO!

[JigsawVs.Jason]

For anybody thinking Cornette doesn't have at least as much say as Delirious, I point you to QT Marshall. That guy reeks of a guy Cornette would have pushed to the moon in SMW, despite the fact he doesn't fit into ROH at all.

I will never get why they signed QT Marshall - very bland and mediocre to me - over Tadaruis Thomas, that is almost criminal!

After reading this weeks newswire it seems Tadarius Thomas is getting signed or at least used more frequently, which makes me very happy. I'm really looking forward to see him in more competitive matches

[Wrestlingisback]

Generico should be offered the same amount of money as Richards, then maybe we could see the generic luchador in ROH again. As one of the users above stated, Generico winning the belt at Final Battle 2012 would be the epic conclusion to the greatest wrestling saga of all time IMO!

JMO, but I don't see that under Cornette. He comes from the old school of thought that "comedy acts" (which only loosely defines Generico) are cool to have but they don't get within 5 feet of a belt, much less THE belt (see how quick they got the TV title off him when they hit TV). It's unfortunate and I'd love to be wrong, but I think Cornette looks at Generico as a guy who can't be the face of a "credible" pro wrestling company that's looking to appeal to old school wrestling fans who stopped watching or MMA fans who used to watch

[Jeremy]

Armchair Bookers Unite

what do you mean by this?

It's his failure at an attempt to look superior in not engaging in the conversation about ROH's booking. He's using that genius logic of, "Well, do you guys work in wrestling? Are you a booker? No? Then you have no right to criticize the booking."

In response to your earlier question, asking if I'm a new fan, that's hardly the case. I've been watching wrestling since 1998, and for the cent it's worth I've been a fan of ROH since late 2002/early 2003. I'm very much a fan of old-school style NWA, but the problem is those guys were ahead of their time then, now when ROH is trying to emulate it it comes across as a kid trying to wear his older brother's clothes and tucking them in to appear as though they fit. They just don't have the variables to make both ends of the old-school/modern top-tier indy spectrum work, Cornette certainly isn't doing any favors and I feel bringing in Dutch Mantell would only make it more of a mess and lose more sight of what fans love about ROH.

JMO, but I don't see that under Cornette. He comes from the old school of thought that "comedy acts" (which only loosely defines Generico) are cool to have but they don't get within 5 feet of a belt, much less THE belt (see how quick they got the TV title off him when they hit TV). It's unfortunate and I'd love to be wrong, but I think Cornette looks at Generico as a guy who can't be the face of a "credible" pro wrestling company that's looking to appeal to old school wrestling fans who stopped watching or MMA fans who used to watch

Why would they push Generico? Not like he's one of the most over and consistent guys they used to have. He needed to be gone to further all the to-shelf talent like QT Marshall, the OVW guys, and the Mike Bennett/Brutal Bob tandem.

[syxxpakk]

If Generico doesn't want to sign a contract they can't make him.

He just said on Cabana's podcast (yes Generico talked in very broken english) that he has been traveling a ton and wrestling. Hell he even wrestled in Russia, I didn't even know they had wrestling there.

If Richards can wrestle the world over (in many of the same places Generico has been wrestling outside DGUSA/EVOLVE) under an ROH contract, I imagine Generico can too. So I doubt that's it. Seems more like the offer itself. I wonder what was offered to them compared to other ROH top guys

Generico should be offered the same amount of money as Richards, then maybe we could see the generic luchador in ROH again. As one of the users above stated, Generico winning the belt at Final Battle 2012 would be the epic conclusion to the greatest wrestling saga of all time IMO!

I'll go you one better: pay him whatever they're paying Davey, then: quit paying Rhino and whatever they were giving to Rhino, give that to El Generico also.

[Wrestlingisback]

Cornette certainly isn't doing any favors and I feel bringing in Dutch Mantell would only make it more of a mess and lose more sight of what fans love about ROH.

That last part is the key. It's not about what the current fans love about ROH anymore. Kenny King said it best in the ANX shoot: "We already got you MFers"

[Marketh.]

If Richards can wrestle the world over (in many of the same places Generico has been wrestling outside DGUSA/EVOLVE) under an ROH contract, I imagine Generico can too. So I doubt that's it. Seems more like the offer itself. I wonder what was offered to them compared to other ROH top guys

Generico should be offered the same amount of money as Richards, then maybe we could see the generic luchador in ROH again. As one of the users above stated, Generico winning the belt at Final Battle 2012 would be the epic conclusion to the greatest wrestling saga of all time IMO!

I'll go you one better: pay him whatever they're paying Davey, then: quit paying Rhino and whatever they were giving to Rhino, give that to El Generico also.

As much as I'd like to see Generico back, punishing Rhino is hardly the way to go about it, especially when he's been putting good matches on. As good as Generico? No. But why pick on a guy doing his job right?

[syxxpakk]

As much as I'd like to see Generico back, punishing Rhino is hardly the way to go about it, especially when he's been putting good matches on. As good as Generico? No. But why pick on a guy doing his job right?

YMMV, but I have no desire to see him.

[Marketh.]

As much as I'd like to see Generico back, punishing Rhino is hardly the way to go about it, especially when he's been putting good matches on. As good as Generico? No. But why pick on a guy doing his job right?

YMMV, but I have no desire to see him.

You'd be in the minority there then, because he's been very over at the shows. I don't think "Let's bring back this very over guy and get rid of another over guy" is a productive solution.

[ninetwentyfour]

Cornette certainly isn't doing any favors and I feel bringing in Dutch Mantell would only make it more of a mess and lose more sight of what fans love about ROH.

That last part is the key. It's not about what the current fans love about ROH anymore. Kenny King said it best in the ANX shoot: "We already got you MFers"

Except they've lost a huge segment of those fans.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

If Richards can wrestle the world over (in many of the same places Generico has been wrestling outside DGUSA/EVOLVE) under an ROH contract, I imagine Generico can too. So I doubt that's it. Seems more like the offer itself. I wonder what was offered to them compared to other ROH top guys

Generico should be offered the same amount of money as Richards, then maybe we could see the generic luchador in ROH again. As one of the users above stated, Generico winning the belt at Final Battle 2012 would be the epic conclusion to the greatest wrestling saga of all time IMO!

I'll go you one better: pay him whatever they're paying Davey, then: quit paying Rhino and whatever they were giving to Rhino, give that to El Generico also.

Supposing Rhino makes quite a lot of money in ROH, that would be a perfect solution: give Generico the money he needs to quit other indys, and finally get a world-class main eventer.
No one needs Rhino if we could have Generico instead, using the money they're paying Rhino to bring him back. Rhino is a midcard guy, who's doing his job, but Generico - right now in the state of current ROH - would not only be the best inr-ing wrestler of the roster, but also the most over guy on the roster. Would you choose such a guy like Generico or an ECW has-been? I know what the fans would choose, apparently Cornette doesn't. Having Generico on the roster would improve a lot of things at once, while I seriously doubt anyone would miss Rhino.
And this is not a knock on Rhino, they could also get rid of Haas and Benjamin, who I suppose to make quite a lot of money. No one would miss those two if Generico would be back for good

[Wrestlingisback]

Cornette certainly isn't doing any favors and I feel bringing in Dutch Mantell would only make it more of a mess and lose more sight of what fans love about ROH.

That last part is the key. It's not about what the current fans love about ROH anymore. Kenny King said it best in the ANX shoot: "We already got you MFers"

Except they've lost a huge segment of those fans.

I would debate the "huge segment" part. Lot more disillusioned fans currently, but their strong markets remain about the same